LoL ... hahah ... i was wondering when someone was going to notice this was
totally off topic...
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life, through
Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let
him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for
he will abundantly pardon.
Isaiah 55:7
2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do
gender strifes.
ATTENTION EVERYONE CHRISTIAN DEFENGING THEIR FAITH!
Heed this passage from the bible, (and all those non christian, this passage
does not mean, that your knowleged and questions are foolish and unlearned...
only when it comes to questions about God it is)
If you think these questions in the forum are getting no where and you are
getting uberly frustrated... just 'plant the seed' and leave it be, otherwise
you will get discouraged. Back up all your answers with the word of God for that
is our sword.
Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of
God.
It will not be our words that will affect people, but God's word.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword,
it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the
thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
If God wanted everyone to worhsip him right now, he could do that, but he
DIDN'T, he gave us a choice to worship him or not. He gave us feelings, and one
of those important feelings is LOVE...
If you had to tell your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband ... "I want you
to hug me now, then kiss me and then tell me you love me..." that would not
be real love, Real love is when someone does those things out of love for that
person! This is what God wants from us, that is why we have a choice!
That's all im going to say, because everyone in this forum really just wants to
argue.
Also, God did not plan to have death in this world when he made it, he may know
about it, but it was our choice (or in this case Adam and Eve when they picked
the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil).
God has made a way for all of us to escape death!
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that
whosoever beleiveth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Ephesians 2:8- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God.
All we have to do is have FAITH, to BELEIVE! It's so simple and easy, yet for
some it is increadibly hard... yet Jesus says in John 20:29 "...blessed are
they that have not seen, and yet have beleived."
Anyway, in reply about those passages Recyle wants to know about ... Exodus
31:12-17 and Deutoronomy 13:6-10. The first passage talks about the Sabbath and
the latter talks about Idolatry.
Starting with Exodus 31:12-17.
Firstly, this passage is for the Children of Israel. So the Israelites which are
also known as God's chosen people. Deutoronomy 7:6 - For thou art an holy people
unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people
unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Now you are wondering about verse 15 - "... whosoever doeth any work in the
Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." And the question was : Edit:
"Sunday...it's an important day. Anyone who says otherwise and does work on
that day must be put to the sword!"
Now you know, God wasn't talking to Gentiles (non-Jewish Christians), but to the
Israelites. Also, the Sabbath is not Sunday.
Sunday became the 'holy day' because is was related to Easter. Christ died on
'Good Friday' then rose from the dead three days later... which is 'Easter
Sunday' This is basically why Sunday was considered holy and people then
interpreted it as the sabbath because the Isaraelites Sabbath was holy. But in
reality the Sabbath was only for the Isaraelites and not us.
Exodus was written by Moses, so wayyyy before Christ came. You have to
understand that before Christ came as the sacrifice for the whole world and to
intercede for our sins, there was no one there to intercede for our wrong doings
(sin). The Old Testament guys had to offer burnt (animal) sacrifices to God. God
is Holy, he cannot bear sin, that is why he sent Christ as the sacrifice for all
of us. Ephesians 5:2 - "... as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given
himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God ... "
This is why in the Old Testament God was strict with the Israelites, God is
Holy, even if it was an accident, it is still wrong in the sight of God who is
Holy. An example of this is manslaughter, it may have been accidental, but it is
still killing. Even a little sin, it is still sin! But this is in the Old
Testament.
Because Christ died on the cross to save us from our sins: Romans 3:23 - For all
have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth
his love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for US
[emphasis added].
The New Testament is for the Church today (the period after Christ ascendance to
heaven). The sabbath was also a controversy in Jesus' time, but Christ was the
sacrifice, the 'go between' between man and God, through him in Matthew 12:12 -
He says "...Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days."
With that, Jesus means it is okay to do good things on the sabbath day...
I hope that answers that verse. i'll get to deutoronomy later! (i have to study
for uni as well!)
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
merged: 08-05-2007 ~ 02:59pm
Quote by SulibresI came here interested
in the messages Christianity wished to spread.
All I found out was that Christian God is supposed to be loving and all
powerful. Yet it knows the outcome of all its actions and our actions. But for
some reason does not really give a hoot that some of the creations it loves will
not believe in it and therefore must be damned for eternity...And to this God,
love is showing obedience but not love for your flesh and blood parents,
preaching tolerance but yet attempting to wipe out all the other religions
and...Being a servant to everyone and no one.
This God is the most confusing God I have ever come across. Even Allah is a bit
easier to understand.
Do you have any verses that show the contradictions you have stated, in the
bible? Here are some verses God wants us to apply in our Christian lives ... but
we still have a choice to follow it or not.
Ephesians 6:1-3
1.Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2. HONOUR THY
FATHER AND MOTHER; which is the FIRST [emphasis added] commandment with promise;
3. THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH THEE, AND THOU MAYEST LIVE LONG ON THE
EARTH.
Galatians 5:22-23
22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, [emphasis added]
LONGSUFFERING, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23. Meekness, temperance: against
such there is no law.
God does know everything. But that does not take away the fact that you have a
freewill and a choice! You either had a choice to write on this forum today or
not, you have a choice to eat or not etc... if you don't eat today even if your
mom just bought you Subway, and starve, are you going to blame God? Just becasue
he knows, doesn't mean you don't have a choice!
If people just start saying, "God should be this or that, or do this or
that... etc" this just means that people are making up their own 'god'
according to their philosophies. If God is GOD, then his philosophies (actually
everything) are going to be DIFFERENT! (from ours)
Isaiah 55:8 - For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my
ways, saith the LORD.
1 Corinthians 2:16 - (a)For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may
instruct him? (b)But we have the mind of Christ.
This passage is written by Apostle Paul to the Christians in the Corinthian
church. So (b) is related to John 15:15 of which Jesus says - "Henceforth I
call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I
have called you friends; for all things that i have heard of my Father i have
made known unto you." Of which Jesus is saying this to his
disciples.
If God wanted everyone to worhsip him right now, he could do that, but he
DIDN'T, he gave us a choice to worship him or not. He gave us feelings, and one
of those important feelings is LOVE...
If you had to tell your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband ... "I want you
to hug me now, then kiss me and then tell me you love me..." that would not
be real love, Real love is when someone does those things out of love for that
person! This is what God wants from us, that is why we have a choice!
i did not say that atheist blame God for EVERYTHING bad that happens to them (in
reality, atheists are not the only people that beleive God isn't real, theres
those who beleive in enlightenment etc), i said people THINK that way in some
situations, and frankly, i have many atheists friends who open their mouths and
openly say that it is God's fault when bad situations arise (NOT ALL THE TIME,
but they still say it)
And whoever said that gaseous bodies were not possible? i said according to the
bigbang theory, using its philosophies, those mentioned gaseous bodies should
not be there, according to the big bang philosophy.
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 03:02pm
And again i'll say: The big bang is just the most popular theory.
Internationally renown Astrophysicist George F. R. Ellis explains: "People
need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the
observations (the evidences for a big bang)...For instance, I can construct you
a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot
disprove it based on observations...You can only exclude it on philosophical
grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to
bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in
choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that." (W. Wayt
Gibbs, "Profile: George F. R. Ellis," Scientific American, October
1995, Vol. 273, No.4, p. 55.) (http://www.big-bang-theory.com/)
WIKIPEDIA is NOT a good source of information ... lol ... people can change that
information anytime, because it is a self edit internet encyclopaedia ... go
look up journals instead ... or even better, BOOKS BOOKS BOOKS
Although Darwin expected millions of transitional fossils to be found, none have
been found, except for a mere handful of disputable ones. Evolutionist Dr Colin
Patterson of the British Museum of Natural History respnded as follows to a
written question asking why he failed to include illustrations of transitional
forms in a book he wrote on evolution:
"... I fully agree with your comments on
the lack of direct illustration of evolutionary transitions in my book. If i
knew of any, fossil or living, i would certainly have included them. You suggest
that an artist should be used to visualise such transformations, but where would
he get the information from? I could not, honestly, provide it, and if i were to
leave it to artistic licence, would that not mislead the reader?
I wrote the text of my book four years ago. If i were to write it now, I think
the book would be rather different. Gradualism is a concept i believe in, not
because of Darwin's authority, but because my understanding of genetics seem to
demand it. Yet Gould and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when
they say there are no transitional fossils. As a palaeontologist myself, I am
much occuied with the philosophical problems of identifying ancestral forms in
the fossil record. You say that i should at least "show a photo of the
fossil from which each type of organism was derived." I will lay it on the
line - there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight
argument." (Letter written April 10, 1979 from Dr Colin Patterson,
then senior palaeontologist at the British Museum of Natural History in London,
to Luther D. Sunderland, as quoted in Sunderland, L.D., 1984. Darwin's Enigma, Master Books, San Diego, USA,
p 89)
While it is always possible to maintain faith in evolution by belief in
unobservable mechanisms or secondary assumptions, the evidence of UNIVERSAL
scarcity of the evolutionary 'links' on a global scale is powerful, positive
support for creation, regardless of how and when fossils may have formed.
(These have been sourced from 'The Answers Book' by Ham, K., Sarfati, J.,
Wieland, C. 1999 Triune Press, Brisbane)
Quote by Nephilim07atheist are more
realistic to be honest and are more dependent on themselves rather then... all
goes bad and you blame it on god >.>.... ya its wrong.. some people just
throw big problems on the shoulders of god saying its his fault.... that things
went bad.. or its his fault things went good etc lol... god is a form of hope
oto.... and who knows.. can't be proven... maybe he does exist.. maybe he
doesn't... with this idea i would think atheists would be more stronger mentally
without always relying on a higher up.. OR total opposite.. to feel that there
is no one else but yourself.. can make yourself weak sometimes when your
depressed =/
I think thats the problem! People who don't beleive in God tend to blame God
when things go wrong, then say, "if there was a God he wouldn't do
this", but when things go right, they don't even think of God. Why bring
God into situations that you do not agree with, but leave him out when you're on
a roll? I'm pretty sure everyone has thought this ... maybe your friends desert
you you think "God doesnt love me" but then when you make a new
friend, its all "Yay!" ... (i don't mean people think about this
everytime something goes wrong, but we're all guilty of thinking this way in
some situations)
For example, all those school shootings recently, people have asked me "why
didn't God stop them?" Well i had to think about this, but then i realized
that God wasnt even in schools anymore! I mean, schools don't even acknowledge
God anymore, so why blame him at these times?
Tofu is nice! especially with some mince meat and capsicum with black bean
*drools*
Now that u mention protein powders... we sell heaps at my health food store, but
not all types, the most popular is BSN and apparently it tastes like milk shakes
rather than the powder type which kinda gets chalky in your mouth... People
sometimes overdo it with protein powders tho, your body tends to become too
acidic, and full of phosphorus, not to mention a rise in blood pressure...
unless of course you eat heaps of veges with it...
Oh, one thing i have studied recently (actually a year ago) was that taking
flaxseed oil/ linseed oil can lower cholesterol thus preveninting heart attacks
or myocarial infarctions, deep vein thrombosis and the like. Even though its fat
content is quite high, it is the good fats in it which are important, such as
omega 3 and omega 6(plant based ... the other is meat based), which is the
reason for lowering cholesterol levels.
Also taking care of your liver is another thing! The liver is the number one
organ in the body for getting rid of toxins! thats why alcoholics suffer from
more GIT sickness than non alcoholics. So if you plan to binge on some crazy
unhealthy food such as alcohol or high (bad) fatty food... i recommend taking a
herb called "Syllibum marianum" or commonly named milk thistle, which
can be found in capsules, which acts as a protective to your liver when you try
and kill it!
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 09:13am
Ah! So many questions! But i don't mind ...
im sure that we are looking for the truth, i'll try and answer these questions
soon, coz im at work right now and its hard to talk to customers and to answer
at the same time... my train of thought goes out the window when they start
asking about protein powders ...
XD
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 09:28am
oh, and the Bible isn't something to control people with! LoL! ^_^ It's not like
its going to zap you! (just playing with you, i know what u mean ) The
Bible is your choice, if you want to believe it or not.
I'd like to notify people that Bible believing Christians are different to Roman
Catholics/ Anglicans etc... in how they worship... marfish14 mentioned that in
previous times the church was used to control people. If i get you correctly,
people did not read the bible themselves, but soley relied on a preist to tell
them what to do. This is relative to the Roman Catholic Church in this present
day, it is very sad, and my heart breaks when i hear of such events.
T-T
In reality, those preists made themselves in a 'high position' and just like all
things in life, there are corrupt people in this world. (Before you all start
going "see?" contradiction! Please think about whether these preist
really were ... in defintion 'Christians' which is to beleive Christ died for
their sins and believe he can save us)
Which then leads us to the questions before about why didn't God just make the
Preists holy and Make people do this and that ...
These are hard questions to answer, just like 'what is the meaning of life?'
i'll do some research, but i hope you realize there is not going to be a
definate answer to some of these questions just like there is no definate answer
to "what is the meaning of life?" (Tho my answer for that is to
Glorify God )
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 09:40am
Provrbs 3:5.Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own
understanding. 6.In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy
paths.
Here's a little lifting up for all you Christ believers out there
Quote by Nephilim07science proves
things correctly... religion doesn't... end of story... i'm not saying having no
religion is good.. =/ religion is form of hope to us .... its our only way to
keep going... i mean ever have those times when relative goes missing and you
worrying and hope that they come back safely..a nd hoping that someone out there
would protect her.. hell... all that crap and worrying probably won't do a
thing.. but it makes us feel safer ....
sadly thats how it works lol.... better to have both or youll be living a very
bad life
Science DOES prove things correctly ... i agree with you absolutely when it
comes to operational science, we can prove what we see/observe by experiments
etc. But when it comes to origins science, it is hard to prove what we have not
seen. For example, The ancient egyptian drawings/ medeveal drawings on walls/
rocks (if we hadn't seen any documents and writings and even then, what if they
were just creative stories?)... Are We For Certain that is how they lived? i
mean they are just drawings on walls ... People could have thought to just be
creative! LoL ... imagine if someone in the future dug up the art museums around
the world and saw all the differnt art, without realizing our culture, they'd
think people would have no arms/people's faces were distorted and so on!
Quote by marfish14The fact that god
knows everything kind of makes you wonder why man needs punishment. God created
man knowing full well what was going to happen, he even created adam and eve
knowing that he was going to expel them from heaven. Same with the devil. Seems
cruel to know that we were going to go becom violent up to that point and then
decide to destroy us. If god knows everything, why would he not have created us
in a way where these events would not have happened? God himself would not have
done this as he seemed displeased with mans actions in the bible, but he made
man with the capability of doing such. Its also great to know that we have
people rooting for the end of the world too happen, im sure everyones quite
pleased with global warming. The bible was put together by one of the oldest
civilizations in 1850 b.c.e. as they put their myths and stories to desribe the
world into a book. The bible is contradictory of itself and goes against
reality.
Adam and Eve were not cast out of heaven, they were cast out of The Garden of
Eden, which was on Earth.
One question i will pose to everyone ... If you
don't believe in earthly things which God has provided, how can you understand
heavenly things which God is associated with? (such as your question on
God knowing everything) Is there a point in explaining that God is Almighty and
could wipe out the earth, but that he
has a plan for each and everyone of us? How can we even question God about his
authority? Obviously our thinking is not up to scratch agains God, Even if you
say God's thinking is 'foolish' wouldn't that make our thoughts WAY below
foolish?
As for myths, i don't think you can say that just now, in my previous posts
there are now archaeological evidences as well as living evidence of prophecies
and happenings in the bible. Obviously there are evidences which may never be
found, but for instance, the contrivursal Flood, there are evidences which show
a world wide event and sediment deposits and fossils, which show such an event
happened.
Quote by alexjohnc3"Do not
suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring
peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter
against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies
will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother
more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than
me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is
not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his
life for my sake will find it."
-Matthew
10:34-39 (NIV)
With this passage, unless you read the whole chapter 10, you are going to
misunderstand it. This passage is talking about Jesus instructing the twelve
apostles, he is not talking directly to mankind; see from verse 5:
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded then, saying, "Go not into the
way of....." etc...
As you can see Jesus is talking to the twelve. The versus you have quoted if you
read fully into them can be also found in Luke 12:49 (funnily enough, they were
written by different people at different times) but the wording may be slightly
different. Both those passages are related to disciples of christ, so back then
and now, Christ is warning of the cost of discipleship, that people who beleive
in him shall be "divided" meaning that people will be against them or
oppose them even in families ... Hahaha... isn't that funny, that i am and other
Christ believing Christians are being 'opposed' now
Hey! I'm a health freak, since im studying natural medicine and are really
interested in sport science... i exercise regularly and take lots of fibre and
drink lots of water ... normally i go running and maybe gyming once in a while,
but i actually focus on eating healthy ... Vegetables at any time kinda thing
and more protein than carbs, Yummy! What works for you to keep you
healthy/fit/slim?
roseofhell ... you are the most funniest guy! Ok,
first of all, The bible doesnt say those things literally, they are translated
for us so its easy to understand. (Im talking about suspended in space topic...)
And what do mean by 'before the bible was made?' ... There is no bible before
the bible 0.o And thats the thing... The authors thoughts were not exactly the
same... if you ever get to read the whole bible, everything relates to each
other, which is why it is amazing, because different people wrote them over the
years, especially since some people were already dead when others were writing
other parts of the bible... And the bible isn't just a story book, some books fo
the bible are in fact letters to different churches in europe or letters to
people
Well let me tell you what the bible says about the 'apocalypse' (not really, its
called the rapture) it says that those people that believe Christ died on the
Cross will be taken up to heaven in a *twinkling of an eye*, so basically, we
disapear if you would like to take it that way ... if that day happens in your
lifetime... i hope you think back of this
merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 06:15pm
I also think people are thinking only about the 'God is a loving God' and
forgetting that he too is a 'Just God'. Just like your parents punish you, God
punishes people for their wrong doing, otherwise how do we learn? Now you say,
mishmash! The punishment is death... especially the flood death... isn't that
too harsh? Well, if you have read the whole context of the flood... Before the
flood happened the whole world was evil ... Read Genesis 6
Starting from 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it
grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have
created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing,
and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. ..... 11The
earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.12And
God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had
corrupted his way upon the earth. 13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh
is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and,
behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
As can see, before the flood happened, the world was filled with wickedness ...
it does not say what the wickedness was, but it says 'every imagination' which
means all types... such as murder, stealing, fornication, cheating, wars etc. If
you figure it out, the whole world would eventually would destroy itself due to
its wickedness. And becuase God loved us and those people, and has compassion,
those wicked people would not care that what they are donig is wrong, God
decided to send the flood to mercifully destroy mankind, rather than see them
suffer through their own actions ...
Some people might say, "Why not just change everyone's thoughts so they
become good again?" LoL... thats why there is a free will... In actual
fact, he gave those people time to change! Before the flood happened, there was
one man named Noah, he told the people to repent and realize what they are doing
before it was too late ... he warned them for nearly 100 years (i'll check up on
that) but no one wanted to change from their wicked ways.
Anyway, why ask about the flood if you don't even believe God exists? LOL Does
the fact that im explaining it to you change your mind that there is a God? Or
do u just want to argue with me
Guys! People! These Verses are from the Bible, which is a Book, so if you do not
look at the whole context of it, there is obviously going to be some things you
are going to misunderstand.
One of my favourite verses:
John 1:1-12
1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. 2.The same was in the beginning with God. 3.All things were made by him;
and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4.In him was life; and the
life was the light of men. 5.And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness
comprehended it not. 6.There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7.The
same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him
might believe. 8.He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that
Light. 9.That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the
world. 10.He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew
him not. 11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12. But as many
as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them
that believe on his name
merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 03:31pm
Before i start, some of the following information has been sourced from
"The Answers Book" by Ken Ham, Jonathan Sarfati and Carl Wieland 1999,
Triune Press, Brisbane, as well as the Bible!
The Bible points to the existance of a divine author due to its:
1. Amazing Unity - despite being penned by more than 40 authors from over 19
different walks of life over 1,600 years, the Bible is a consistent revelation
from the beginning to the end.
2. The Bible's Amazing Preservation - In spite of political and religios
persecution, the Bible remains. The Roman Emperor Diocletian, following a decree
in 303ad, thought he had destroyed every bible. Twenty - five years later,
Constantine commissioned the production of bibles! In the 19th Century, a French
man named Voltaire, said that within a century there would be no bibles left.
50years later, the Geneva Bible Society used its old printin press to produce
Bibles. Funnily enough, the Bible today is available in far more languages than
any other book. (Please correct me if i am wrong)
3. The Bibles Historic Accuracy - Sir William Ramsay (i studied this guy in
Ancient History! ), is
regarded one of the greatest archaeologists ever, did no believe that the New
Testament documents were historically reliable. However, his archaeological
investigations showed him his sceptacism was bit warranted. Speaking of Luke,
the writer of the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts, Ramsay says, "Luke
is a historian of the first randk ... he should be placed along with the
greatest of historians." (Ramsay, W., 1953. Bearing of Recent Discoveries on the Trustworthiness of the New
Testament, Baker Books, Grand Rapids, Michigan, p222
Please also have a look at www.christiananswers.net for other
info of the bible and archaeology.
4. The Bible's 'scientific' accuracy (read before you say anything) -
Some examples: That the earth is round (Isaiah 40:22); the earth is suspended in
space without support (Job 26:7), the stars are countless (Gen 15:5), Physiology
such as the importance of blood as one example (Leviticus 17:11), The first and
second laws of thermodynamics (Isaiah 51:6) and many other things. Please have a
look at Morris, H.M., 1984. The Biblical Basis
of Modern Science, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, Michigan
When you people are looking at these versus, it is written in so called 'bible
speak' if you really don't get it pm me ok?
5. The Bible's Prophetic accuracy - The bible states that the accurate
foretelling of events is the province of God ... look at Isaiah 48:3,5 ... The
bible contains many specific prophecies.
McDowell (see McDowell, J., 1972. Evidence that Demands a verdict, Vol.1, San
Bernadino, CA) documents 61 prophecies related to Jesus alone. Many of these,
such as birth, burial, manner of death, betrayal were beyond his control.
McDowell also thoroughly documents 12 detailed, specific prophecies regarding
Tyre, Sidon, Samaria, Gaza and Ashkelon, Moab and Ammon, Petra, Thebes and
Memphis, Nineveh, Babylon, Jersuaslem and Palestine. These prophecies were not
written after the event. Feel free to research this ... and tell me if u find
anything
No offense marfish14 but can u back this up? i saw an article a few days back
that said neptune and uranus should be 'non existant' according to the big bang
theory, this was because they are such big planets made of gaseous form (also
with their lopsided magnetif field) ... i shall post it later ...
I'd like to point out... unless you are studying a degree in science concerning
space and physics right at this moment (even then, textbooks were written before
hand) or researching this topic as a scientist, do people realize how old our
text books are? (Not to mention how old our teachers are when they learnt this
stuf?!) Are we just believing what we learn at school? (Not saying that we are
not meant to learn at school, but we are only learning a Theory)
As everyone knows, science is always changing, knew theories are always being
made to replace old theories... the big bang theory was made up in the 1940
-50's, wouldn't there be now, new theories relating to the 'beginning of the
universe'?
The big bang is just the most popular one. Internationally renown Astrophysicist
George F. R. Ellis explains: "People need to be aware that there is a range
of models that could explain the observations (the evidences for a big
bang)...For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe
with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations...You
can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely
nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we
are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology
tries to hide that." (W. Wayt Gibbs, "Profile: George F. R.
Ellis," Scientific American, October 1995, Vol. 273, No.4, p. 55.)
(http://www.big-bang-theory.com/)
Quote by alexjohnc3 I want to know the
truth and people who try to distort it like the people at AiG or those atheists
who are overly zealous and don't care about the truth are just a hindrance to
that goal.
I think you are mistaking what their opinons are and what they (AiG) have
researched ... theres a fine difference between them. They may believe atheism
is this and that and that other beliefs are this and that... but that still
doesn't justify that they are distorting the truth ... about eg. evolution,
fossils, carbon dating, the universe, the flood etc
You can't be saying that because they believe in one particular faith that
everything they do is distorted. Thats saying if you meet someone new and they
were angry, that they are always an angry person! If you are concerned about
that, why not just look into their scientific research instead of focusing on their
opinions?
Like before, they are not distorting their scientific research on The second Law
of Thermodynamics... if distorting it is even possible ... they are merely
restating what this scientific law means and the justification for it against
evolution, is it not true that everything physical that has a beginning,
eventually reaches and end? (unless of course there is intervention, ie. a
machine getting fixed)
And the adaptation of animals, does it not mean the animals that die off means
that those genes are actually disappearing? And that genetic information is not
increasing? - which opposes evolution?
Think about these questions as if you are genuinley searching for the truth ...
doesnt it make you wonder? This next post i'll put up is about fossils (from
AiG)... i put no bible versus up or anything spiritual, all this is done
research, doesn't it make you wonder?
Put it this way, their research is putting questions into whether this theory of
evolution is right, they may believe the bible is right and may say so, but this
research has all the elements of science in it... observation, question,
hypothesis, prediction, testing and theory. If you don't like their view, look
over what they say, but focus more on their research! And its not like you cant
ask them questions :O
Quote: The world - that the created universe is real,
consistent, understandable, and possible to investigate, for example - came from
the Bible. Even Non- Christian historians of science such as Loren Eiseley have
acknowledged this.
And that's just lying.
How is it? Please reference?
Um, how am I supposed to reference the fact that something isn't in the Bible?
They're the one making the extraordinary claim that the Bible is the origin of
the view that the world is "real, consistent, understandable, and possible
to investigate" came from the Bible.
LOL! i think we are on different lines here i
think you took it too literally that the bible actually said that the 'created
universe is real, consistent, understandable, and possible to investigate'. I
took it as, what the bible offers us, is a chance to investigate the world, and
to let us know that the world is consistant and is understandable, rather than
the world is giant puzzle we must solve ... i hope that clears up some stuf
merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 01:57pm
i posted this in the atheist thread but i thought it would be more appropriate
here LoL
I'd like to say... unless you are studying a degree in science concerning space
and physics right at this moment (even then, textbooks were written before hand)
or researching this topic as a scientist, do people realize how old our text
books are? (Not to mention how old our teachers are when they learnt this
stuf?!) Are we just believing what we learn at school? (Not saying that we are
not meant to learn at school, but we are only learning a Theory)
As everyone knows, science is always changing, knew theories are always being
made to replace old theories... the big bang theory was made up in the 1940
-50's, wouldn't there be now, new theories relating to the 'beginning of the
universe'?
The big bang is just the most popular one. Internationally renown Astrophysicist
George F. R. Ellis explains: "People need to be aware that there is a range
of models that could explain the observations (the evidences for a big
bang)...For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe
with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations...You
can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely
nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we
are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology
tries to hide that." (W. Wayt Gibbs, "Profile: George F. R.
Ellis," Scientific American, October 1995, Vol. 273, No.4, p. 55.)
(http://www.big-bang-theory.com/)
Can i also say... i think people have different meanings on the word 'christian'
... some people say they are christian because they go to church, go to a
'christian' school, because their parents went to church, because they are a
good person in general ... is that really what being a christian means? Just
being good and hopefully you'll go to heaven? Many people claim to be
christian...
To ME (so please do not be rude) Christianity, being a Christian, means you
believe Christ died on the Cross for your sins (or bad things you've done, no
matter how big or small), by believing he is the one who paid the penalty for
your sin (yes its that simple) you can gain eternal life (i don't mean
immortal/not to die).
People find this hard to grasp because there is no so called 'real' evidence
that there is a God and the fact that it is spiritual. Do every single one of
you who oppose a 'higher being/creator' believe the whole world and reality is
essentially material? or that reality is in fact dualism? (Humans are made up of
physical bodies and non-physical minds)
I'm not proving religion is right... i think people are forgetting that there
are MANY different types of religion out there each with their own separate way
... Everyone is relating science versus religion, to religion as a whole... for
me i am saying the Bible is right, not 'religion' (people can take this in their
OWN context remember)
Quote: That said, AiG is a group of
Creationists who are intellectually dishonest, though they may also just be
stupid. I'll give you some examples from the text that mishmash stole from
AiG:
Quote: Many people think that
science is anti-God. Atheists encourage this view by claiming that their way of
thinking is 'scientific' In claiming this, they are mmerely re-defining science
to exclude God.
Atheists don't claim their way of thinking is scientific. Often atheists do have
a scientific way of thinking, since they adhere to scientific ideas when forming
their worldviews. That doesn't mean that Science is anti-God, but that it just
doesn't deal with the existence of God or for that matter anything
supernatural.
I don't really understand... u just said that atheists don't say they have a
scientific way of thinking, but then u said they often do have a scientific way
of thinking... (p.s. i'll quote from now on, i just forgot to quote their
book)
Quote: In fact, science began to
flourish only when the biblical view of creation took root in Europe as the
Reformation spread its influence.
Quote: This is sort of true and
another great example of their intellectual dishonesty. They imply that the
"Biblical view of creation" is what caused Science to flourish, which
makes absolutely no sense since Science adheres to empiricism, skepticism, and
rationalism, among other things, all of which reject that you can gain
scientific knowledge by reading a book that has no evidence supporting its
supernatural claims. Christianity has been throughout history opposed to
scientific inquiry, but what the Reformation did do was weaken the Catholic Church. The Reformation itself
didn't support Science at all, in fact it was often opposed to it, but it
weakened the institution that was most strongly opposed to Science in Europe and
helped create the Counter-Reformation, which had some benefits for Science too.
The scientific era was the Age of Enlightenment, not the
Reformation.
Can you please tell me some references to this? (good books... not web sites, i
don't really trust websites) i'm not being sarcastic... i'd like to read up.
Also, maybe we should explain what science means to you... it has alot of
different meanings depending on contex
Quote: The world - that the created
universe is real, consistent, understandable, and possible to investigate, for
example - came from the Bible. Even Non- Christian historians of science such as
Loren Eiseley have acknowledged this.
And that's just lying.
How is it? Please reference?
Okay... i guess this is like a SUPER touchy subject... firstly, are you prepared
to say that the previous posts i put up from AiG about Nature's Law and Living
Creatures are wrong? (They have researched this, because this is what they do
and they also add references to their work ... not to mention... that it
actually makes sense)
*ahem* no one has commented on smileagain's comment about biblical prophecy ...
merged: 08-06-2007 ~ 02:35pm
which is one example of the bible's prophetic truth
LoL ... hahah ... i was wondering when someone was going to notice this was totally off topic...
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isaiah 55:7
2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
ATTENTION EVERYONE CHRISTIAN DEFENGING THEIR FAITH!
Heed this passage from the bible, (and all those non christian, this passage does not mean, that your knowleged and questions are foolish and unlearned... only when it comes to questions about God it is)
If you think these questions in the forum are getting no where and you are getting uberly frustrated... just 'plant the seed' and leave it be, otherwise you will get discouraged. Back up all your answers with the word of God for that is our sword.
Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
It will not be our words that will affect people, but God's word.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
If God wanted everyone to worhsip him right now, he could do that, but he DIDN'T, he gave us a choice to worship him or not. He gave us feelings, and one of those important feelings is LOVE...
If you had to tell your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband ... "I want you to hug me now, then kiss me and then tell me you love me..." that would not be real love, Real love is when someone does those things out of love for that person! This is what God wants from us, that is why we have a choice!
That's all im going to say, because everyone in this forum really just wants to argue.
Also, God did not plan to have death in this world when he made it, he may know about it, but it was our choice (or in this case Adam and Eve when they picked the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil).
God has made a way for all of us to escape death!
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever beleiveth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Ephesians 2:8- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
All we have to do is have FAITH, to BELEIVE! It's so simple and easy, yet for some it is increadibly hard... yet Jesus says in John 20:29 "...blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have beleived."
Anyway, in reply about those passages Recyle wants to know about ... Exodus 31:12-17 and Deutoronomy 13:6-10. The first passage talks about the Sabbath and the latter talks about Idolatry.
Starting with Exodus 31:12-17.
Firstly, this passage is for the Children of Israel. So the Israelites which are also known as God's chosen people. Deutoronomy 7:6 - For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Now you are wondering about verse 15 - "... whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." And the question was : Edit: "Sunday...it's an important day. Anyone who says otherwise and does work on that day must be put to the sword!"
Now you know, God wasn't talking to Gentiles (non-Jewish Christians), but to the Israelites. Also, the Sabbath is not Sunday.
Sunday became the 'holy day' because is was related to Easter. Christ died on 'Good Friday' then rose from the dead three days later... which is 'Easter Sunday' This is basically why Sunday was considered holy and people then interpreted it as the sabbath because the Isaraelites Sabbath was holy. But in reality the Sabbath was only for the Isaraelites and not us.
Exodus was written by Moses, so wayyyy before Christ came. You have to understand that before Christ came as the sacrifice for the whole world and to intercede for our sins, there was no one there to intercede for our wrong doings (sin). The Old Testament guys had to offer burnt (animal) sacrifices to God. God is Holy, he cannot bear sin, that is why he sent Christ as the sacrifice for all of us. Ephesians 5:2 - "... as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God ... "
This is why in the Old Testament God was strict with the Israelites, God is Holy, even if it was an accident, it is still wrong in the sight of God who is Holy. An example of this is manslaughter, it may have been accidental, but it is still killing. Even a little sin, it is still sin! But this is in the Old Testament.
Because Christ died on the cross to save us from our sins: Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for US [emphasis added].
The New Testament is for the Church today (the period after Christ ascendance to heaven). The sabbath was also a controversy in Jesus' time, but Christ was the sacrifice, the 'go between' between man and God, through him in Matthew 12:12 - He says "...Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days." With that, Jesus means it is okay to do good things on the sabbath day...
I hope that answers that verse. i'll get to deutoronomy later! (i have to study for uni as well!)
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
merged: 08-05-2007 ~ 02:59pm
Do you have any verses that show the contradictions you have stated, in the bible? Here are some verses God wants us to apply in our Christian lives ... but we still have a choice to follow it or not.
Ephesians 6:1-3
1.Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2. HONOUR THY FATHER AND MOTHER; which is the FIRST [emphasis added] commandment with promise; 3. THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH THEE, AND THOU MAYEST LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH.
Galatians 5:22-23
22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, [emphasis added] LONGSUFFERING, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23. Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
God does know everything. But that does not take away the fact that you have a freewill and a choice! You either had a choice to write on this forum today or not, you have a choice to eat or not etc... if you don't eat today even if your mom just bought you Subway, and starve, are you going to blame God? Just becasue he knows, doesn't mean you don't have a choice!
If people just start saying, "God should be this or that, or do this or that... etc" this just means that people are making up their own 'god' according to their philosophies. If God is GOD, then his philosophies (actually everything) are going to be DIFFERENT! (from ours)
Isaiah 55:8 - For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
1 Corinthians 2:16 - (a)For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? (b)But we have the mind of Christ.
This passage is written by Apostle Paul to the Christians in the Corinthian church. So (b) is related to John 15:15 of which Jesus says - "Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that i have heard of my Father i have made known unto you." Of which Jesus is saying this to his disciples.
If God wanted everyone to worhsip him right now, he could do that, but he DIDN'T, he gave us a choice to worship him or not. He gave us feelings, and one of those important feelings is LOVE...
If you had to tell your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband ... "I want you to hug me now, then kiss me and then tell me you love me..." that would not be real love, Real love is when someone does those things out of love for that person! This is what God wants from us, that is why we have a choice!
i did not say that atheist blame God for EVERYTHING bad that happens to them (in reality, atheists are not the only people that beleive God isn't real, theres those who beleive in enlightenment etc), i said people THINK that way in some situations, and frankly, i have many atheists friends who open their mouths and openly say that it is God's fault when bad situations arise (NOT ALL THE TIME, but they still say it)
And whoever said that gaseous bodies were not possible? i said according to the bigbang theory, using its philosophies, those mentioned gaseous bodies should not be there, according to the big bang philosophy.
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 03:02pm
And again i'll say: The big bang is just the most popular theory. Internationally renown Astrophysicist George F. R. Ellis explains: "People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations (the evidences for a big bang)...For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations...You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that." (W. Wayt Gibbs, "Profile: George F. R. Ellis," Scientific American, October 1995, Vol. 273, No.4, p. 55.) (http://www.big-bang-theory.com/)
WIKIPEDIA is NOT a good source of information ... lol ... people can change that information anytime, because it is a self edit internet encyclopaedia ... go look up journals instead ... or even better, BOOKS BOOKS BOOKS
Some mentioned that evolution has not been conlusively been proven false.... neither has it conclusively been proven true
are you just talking about religion in general?
isn't it like 11pm in america right now?
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 03:22pm
3. Fossils
Although Darwin expected millions of transitional fossils to be found, none have been found, except for a mere handful of disputable ones. Evolutionist Dr Colin Patterson of the British Museum of Natural History respnded as follows to a written question asking why he failed to include illustrations of transitional forms in a book he wrote on evolution:
"... I fully agree with your comments on the lack of direct illustration of evolutionary transitions in my book. If i knew of any, fossil or living, i would certainly have included them. You suggest that an artist should be used to visualise such transformations, but where would he get the information from? I could not, honestly, provide it, and if i were to leave it to artistic licence, would that not mislead the reader?
I wrote the text of my book four years ago. If i were to write it now, I think the book would be rather different. Gradualism is a concept i believe in, not because of Darwin's authority, but because my understanding of genetics seem to demand it. Yet Gould and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say there are no transitional fossils. As a palaeontologist myself, I am much occuied with the philosophical problems of identifying ancestral forms in the fossil record. You say that i should at least "show a photo of the fossil from which each type of organism was derived." I will lay it on the line - there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument." (Letter written April 10, 1979 from Dr Colin Patterson, then senior palaeontologist at the British Museum of Natural History in London, to Luther D. Sunderland, as quoted in Sunderland, L.D., 1984. Darwin's Enigma, Master Books, San Diego, USA, p 89)
While it is always possible to maintain faith in evolution by belief in unobservable mechanisms or secondary assumptions, the evidence of UNIVERSAL scarcity of the evolutionary 'links' on a global scale is powerful, positive support for creation, regardless of how and when fossils may have formed.
(These have been sourced from 'The Answers Book' by Ham, K., Sarfati, J., Wieland, C. 1999 Triune Press, Brisbane)
I think thats the problem! People who don't beleive in God tend to blame God when things go wrong, then say, "if there was a God he wouldn't do this", but when things go right, they don't even think of God. Why bring God into situations that you do not agree with, but leave him out when you're on a roll? I'm pretty sure everyone has thought this ... maybe your friends desert you you think "God doesnt love me" but then when you make a new friend, its all "Yay!" ... (i don't mean people think about this everytime something goes wrong, but we're all guilty of thinking this way in some situations)
For example, all those school shootings recently, people have asked me "why didn't God stop them?" Well i had to think about this, but then i realized that God wasnt even in schools anymore! I mean, schools don't even acknowledge God anymore, so why blame him at these times?
Tofu is nice! especially with some mince meat and capsicum with black bean *drools*
Now that u mention protein powders... we sell heaps at my health food store, but not all types, the most popular is BSN and apparently it tastes like milk shakes rather than the powder type which kinda gets chalky in your mouth... People sometimes overdo it with protein powders tho, your body tends to become too acidic, and full of phosphorus, not to mention a rise in blood pressure... unless of course you eat heaps of veges with it...
ANYBODY HERE A BODY BUILDER?
Oh, one thing i have studied recently (actually a year ago) was that taking flaxseed oil/ linseed oil can lower cholesterol thus preveninting heart attacks or myocarial infarctions, deep vein thrombosis and the like. Even though its fat content is quite high, it is the good fats in it which are important, such as omega 3 and omega 6(plant based ... the other is meat based), which is the reason for lowering cholesterol levels.
Also taking care of your liver is another thing! The liver is the number one organ in the body for getting rid of toxins! thats why alcoholics suffer from more GIT sickness than non alcoholics. So if you plan to binge on some crazy unhealthy food such as alcohol or high (bad) fatty food... i recommend taking a herb called "Syllibum marianum" or commonly named milk thistle, which can be found in capsules, which acts as a protective to your liver when you try and kill it!
how bout i just pm you the stuf wen i get some time?
ProgramZERO ... read my post on that verse
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 09:13am
...
im sure that we are looking for the truth, i'll try and answer these questions
soon, coz im at work right now and its hard to talk to customers and to answer
at the same time... my train of thought goes out the window when they start
asking about protein powders ...
Ah! So many questions! But i don't mind
XD
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 09:28am
) The
Bible is your choice, if you want to believe it or not.
oh, and the Bible isn't something to control people with! LoL! ^_^ It's not like its going to zap you! (just playing with you, i know what u mean
I'd like to notify people that Bible believing Christians are different to Roman Catholics/ Anglicans etc... in how they worship... marfish14 mentioned that in previous times the church was used to control people. If i get you correctly, people did not read the bible themselves, but soley relied on a preist to tell them what to do. This is relative to the Roman Catholic Church in this present day, it is very sad, and my heart breaks when i hear of such events. T-T
In reality, those preists made themselves in a 'high position' and just like all things in life, there are corrupt people in this world. (Before you all start going "see?" contradiction! Please think about whether these preist really were ... in defintion 'Christians' which is to beleive Christ died for their sins and believe he can save us)
Which then leads us to the questions before about why didn't God just make the Preists holy and Make people do this and that ...
)
These are hard questions to answer, just like 'what is the meaning of life?' i'll do some research, but i hope you realize there is not going to be a definate answer to some of these questions just like there is no definate answer to "what is the meaning of life?" (Tho my answer for that is to Glorify God
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 09:40am
Provrbs 3:5.Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6.In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Here's a little lifting up for all you Christ believers out there
Science DOES prove things correctly ... i agree with you absolutely when it comes to operational science, we can prove what we see/observe by experiments etc. But when it comes to origins science, it is hard to prove what we have not seen. For example, The ancient egyptian drawings/ medeveal drawings on walls/ rocks (if we hadn't seen any documents and writings and even then, what if they were just creative stories?)... Are We For Certain that is how they lived? i mean they are just drawings on walls ... People could have thought to just be creative! LoL ... imagine if someone in the future dug up the art museums around the world and saw all the differnt art, without realizing our culture, they'd think people would have no arms/people's faces were distorted and so on!
Adam and Eve were not cast out of heaven, they were cast out of The Garden of Eden, which was on Earth.
One question i will pose to everyone ... If you don't believe in earthly things which God has provided, how can you understand heavenly things which God is associated with? (such as your question on God knowing everything) Is there a point in explaining that God is Almighty and could wipe out the earth, but that he has a plan for each and everyone of us? How can we even question God about his authority? Obviously our thinking is not up to scratch agains God, Even if you say God's thinking is 'foolish' wouldn't that make our thoughts WAY below foolish?
As for myths, i don't think you can say that just now, in my previous posts there are now archaeological evidences as well as living evidence of prophecies and happenings in the bible. Obviously there are evidences which may never be found, but for instance, the contrivursal Flood, there are evidences which show a world wide event and sediment deposits and fossils, which show such an event happened.
With this passage, unless you read the whole chapter 10, you are going to misunderstand it. This passage is talking about Jesus instructing the twelve apostles, he is not talking directly to mankind; see from verse 5:
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded then, saying, "Go not into the way of....." etc...
As you can see Jesus is talking to the twelve. The versus you have quoted if you read fully into them can be also found in Luke 12:49 (funnily enough, they were written by different people at different times) but the wording may be slightly different. Both those passages are related to disciples of christ, so back then and now, Christ is warning of the cost of discipleship, that people who beleive in him shall be "divided" meaning that people will be against them or oppose them even in families ... Hahaha... isn't that funny, that i am and other Christ believing Christians are being 'opposed' now
Hey! I'm a health freak, since im studying natural medicine and are really interested in sport science... i exercise regularly and take lots of fibre and drink lots of water ... normally i go running and maybe gyming once in a while, but i actually focus on eating healthy ... Vegetables at any time kinda thing and more protein than carbs, Yummy! What works for you to keep you healthy/fit/slim?
roseofhell ... you are the most funniest guy!
Ok,
first of all, The bible doesnt say those things literally, they are translated
for us so its easy to understand. (Im talking about suspended in space topic...)
And what do mean by 'before the bible was made?' ... There is no bible before the bible 0.o And thats the thing... The authors thoughts were not exactly the same... if you ever get to read the whole bible, everything relates to each other, which is why it is amazing, because different people wrote them over the years, especially since some people were already dead when others were writing other parts of the bible... And the bible isn't just a story book, some books fo the bible are in fact letters to different churches in europe or letters to people
Well let me tell you what the bible says about the 'apocalypse' (not really, its called the rapture) it says that those people that believe Christ died on the Cross will be taken up to heaven in a *twinkling of an eye*, so basically, we disapear if you would like to take it that way ... if that day happens in your lifetime... i hope you think back of this
merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 06:15pm
I also think people are thinking only about the 'God is a loving God' and forgetting that he too is a 'Just God'. Just like your parents punish you, God punishes people for their wrong doing, otherwise how do we learn? Now you say, mishmash! The punishment is death... especially the flood death... isn't that too harsh? Well, if you have read the whole context of the flood... Before the flood happened the whole world was evil ... Read Genesis 6
Starting from 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. ..... 11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
As can see, before the flood happened, the world was filled with wickedness ... it does not say what the wickedness was, but it says 'every imagination' which means all types... such as murder, stealing, fornication, cheating, wars etc. If you figure it out, the whole world would eventually would destroy itself due to its wickedness. And becuase God loved us and those people, and has compassion, those wicked people would not care that what they are donig is wrong, God decided to send the flood to mercifully destroy mankind, rather than see them suffer through their own actions ...
Some people might say, "Why not just change everyone's thoughts so they become good again?" LoL... thats why there is a free will... In actual fact, he gave those people time to change! Before the flood happened, there was one man named Noah, he told the people to repent and realize what they are doing before it was too late ... he warned them for nearly 100 years (i'll check up on that) but no one wanted to change from their wicked ways.
Anyway, why ask about the flood if you don't even believe God exists? LOL Does the fact that im explaining it to you change your mind that there is a God? Or do u just want to argue with me
Guys! People! These Verses are from the Bible, which is a Book, so if you do not look at the whole context of it, there is obviously going to be some things you are going to misunderstand.
One of my favourite verses:
John 1:1-12
1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2.The same was in the beginning with God. 3.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4.In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5.And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6.There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7.The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8.He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9.That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10.He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name
merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 03:31pm
Before i start, some of the following information has been sourced from "The Answers Book" by Ken Ham, Jonathan Sarfati and Carl Wieland 1999, Triune Press, Brisbane, as well as the Bible!
The Bible points to the existance of a divine author due to its:
1. Amazing Unity - despite being penned by more than 40 authors from over 19 different walks of life over 1,600 years, the Bible is a consistent revelation from the beginning to the end.
2. The Bible's Amazing Preservation - In spite of political and religios persecution, the Bible remains. The Roman Emperor Diocletian, following a decree in 303ad, thought he had destroyed every bible. Twenty - five years later, Constantine commissioned the production of bibles! In the 19th Century, a French man named Voltaire, said that within a century there would be no bibles left. 50years later, the Geneva Bible Society used its old printin press to produce Bibles. Funnily enough, the Bible today is available in far more languages than any other book. (Please correct me if i am wrong)
3. The Bibles Historic Accuracy - Sir William Ramsay (i studied this guy in Ancient History!
), is
regarded one of the greatest archaeologists ever, did no believe that the New
Testament documents were historically reliable. However, his archaeological
investigations showed him his sceptacism was bit warranted. Speaking of Luke,
the writer of the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts, Ramsay says, "Luke
is a historian of the first randk ... he should be placed along with the
greatest of historians." (Ramsay, W., 1953. Bearing of Recent Discoveries on the Trustworthiness of the New
Testament, Baker Books, Grand Rapids, Michigan, p222
Please also have a look at www.christiananswers.net for other info of the bible and archaeology.
4. The Bible's 'scientific' accuracy (read before you say anything) -
Some examples: That the earth is round (Isaiah 40:22); the earth is suspended in space without support (Job 26:7), the stars are countless (Gen 15:5), Physiology such as the importance of blood as one example (Leviticus 17:11), The first and second laws of thermodynamics (Isaiah 51:6) and many other things. Please have a look at Morris, H.M., 1984. The Biblical Basis of Modern Science, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, Michigan
When you people are looking at these versus, it is written in so called 'bible speak' if you really don't get it pm me ok?
5. The Bible's Prophetic accuracy - The bible states that the accurate foretelling of events is the province of God ... look at Isaiah 48:3,5 ... The bible contains many specific prophecies.
McDowell (see McDowell, J., 1972. Evidence that Demands a verdict, Vol.1, San Bernadino, CA) documents 61 prophecies related to Jesus alone. Many of these, such as birth, burial, manner of death, betrayal were beyond his control. McDowell also thoroughly documents 12 detailed, specific prophecies regarding Tyre, Sidon, Samaria, Gaza and Ashkelon, Moab and Ammon, Petra, Thebes and Memphis, Nineveh, Babylon, Jersuaslem and Palestine. These prophecies were not written after the event. Feel free to research this ... and tell me if u find anything
No offense marfish14 but can u back this up? i saw an article a few days back that said neptune and uranus should be 'non existant' according to the big bang theory, this was because they are such big planets made of gaseous form (also with their lopsided magnetif field) ... i shall post it later ...
I'd like to point out... unless you are studying a degree in science concerning space and physics right at this moment (even then, textbooks were written before hand) or researching this topic as a scientist, do people realize how old our text books are? (Not to mention how old our teachers are when they learnt this stuf?!) Are we just believing what we learn at school? (Not saying that we are not meant to learn at school, but we are only learning a Theory)
As everyone knows, science is always changing, knew theories are always being made to replace old theories... the big bang theory was made up in the 1940 -50's, wouldn't there be now, new theories relating to the 'beginning of the universe'?
The big bang is just the most popular one. Internationally renown Astrophysicist George F. R. Ellis explains: "People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations (the evidences for a big bang)...For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations...You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that." (W. Wayt Gibbs, "Profile: George F. R. Ellis," Scientific American, October 1995, Vol. 273, No.4, p. 55.) (http://www.big-bang-theory.com/)
I think you are mistaking what their opinons are and what they (AiG) have researched ... theres a fine difference between them. They may believe atheism is this and that and that other beliefs are this and that... but that still doesn't justify that they are distorting the truth ... about eg. evolution, fossils, carbon dating, the universe, the flood etc
You can't be saying that because they believe in one particular faith that everything they do is distorted. Thats saying if you meet someone new and they were angry, that they are always an angry person! If you are concerned about that, why not just look into their scientific research instead of focusing on their opinions?
Like before, they are not distorting their scientific research on The second Law of Thermodynamics... if distorting it is even possible ... they are merely restating what this scientific law means and the justification for it against evolution, is it not true that everything physical that has a beginning, eventually reaches and end? (unless of course there is intervention, ie. a machine getting fixed)
And the adaptation of animals, does it not mean the animals that die off means that those genes are actually disappearing? And that genetic information is not increasing? - which opposes evolution?
Think about these questions as if you are genuinley searching for the truth ... doesnt it make you wonder? This next post i'll put up is about fossils (from AiG)... i put no bible versus up or anything spiritual, all this is done research, doesn't it make you wonder?
Put it this way, their research is putting questions into whether this theory of evolution is right, they may believe the bible is right and may say so, but this research has all the elements of science in it... observation, question, hypothesis, prediction, testing and theory. If you don't like their view, look over what they say, but focus more on their research! And its not like you cant ask them questions :O
merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 01:01pm
LOL! i think we are on different lines here
i
think you took it too literally that the bible actually said that the 'created
universe is real, consistent, understandable, and possible to investigate'. I
took it as, what the bible offers us, is a chance to investigate the world, and
to let us know that the world is consistant and is understandable, rather than
the world is giant puzzle we must solve ... i hope that clears up some stuf 
merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 01:57pm
i posted this in the atheist thread but i thought it would be more appropriate here LoL
I'd like to say... unless you are studying a degree in science concerning space and physics right at this moment (even then, textbooks were written before hand) or researching this topic as a scientist, do people realize how old our text books are? (Not to mention how old our teachers are when they learnt this stuf?!) Are we just believing what we learn at school? (Not saying that we are not meant to learn at school, but we are only learning a Theory)
As everyone knows, science is always changing, knew theories are always being made to replace old theories... the big bang theory was made up in the 1940 -50's, wouldn't there be now, new theories relating to the 'beginning of the universe'?
The big bang is just the most popular one. Internationally renown Astrophysicist George F. R. Ellis explains: "People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations (the evidences for a big bang)...For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations...You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that." (W. Wayt Gibbs, "Profile: George F. R. Ellis," Scientific American, October 1995, Vol. 273, No.4, p. 55.) (http://www.big-bang-theory.com/)
Can i also say... i think people have different meanings on the word 'christian' ... some people say they are christian because they go to church, go to a 'christian' school, because their parents went to church, because they are a good person in general ... is that really what being a christian means? Just being good and hopefully you'll go to heaven? Many people claim to be christian...
To ME (so please do not be rude) Christianity, being a Christian, means you believe Christ died on the Cross for your sins (or bad things you've done, no matter how big or small), by believing he is the one who paid the penalty for your sin (yes its that simple) you can gain eternal life (i don't mean immortal/not to die).
People find this hard to grasp because there is no so called 'real' evidence that there is a God and the fact that it is spiritual. Do every single one of you who oppose a 'higher being/creator' believe the whole world and reality is essentially material? or that reality is in fact dualism? (Humans are made up of physical bodies and non-physical minds)